Revelation in a Group Setting

The following, taken from a book by John Pontius, is a beautiful example of how revelation works in a group setting. This is something you saw in the early days of the Church. I also saw it in the early days of the little church we organized. I believe that in Zion this principle will be fully operative in the councils that govern Zion. Note how the two counselors teach and support the bishop and how they teach him the principle of revelation, while still allowing him his agency. Not how the bishop prayed and asked the Lord to teach him how to receive revelation. But that wasn’t his problem. His problem was how to recognize the revelation he was already receiving.

Not quite ten years ago I was called as a counselor in a bishopric. Prior to that time I had served in many capacities but never in a bishopric. The stake had just created the ward and called our new bishop and his new counselors. I will remember our first bishopric meeting for a long time. We didn’t have a single teacher or Young Men or Young Women leader. We didn’t have Primary people, piano players, quorums, or anything else. We just sat there waiting for our poor new bishop to give us a direction. His opening statement was something like, “Don’t look at me!”

We laughed and talked about many things. Finally, a thought came into my mind. “Call Brother Stevens as the Young Men president.”

I opened my mouth to propose this calling when the bishop said, “What about Brother Stevens as the Young Men’s President?”

I wondered at this, and said, “I feel the rightness of that calling, Bishop.”

Our other counselor agreed, and the bishop assigned himself to make the calling. While he was writing, I had another thought. “Call Sister Wilson as the Young Women president.”

I was just about to propose this name, when the additional thought came to me to keep quiet for a moment. After the bishop was done writing he tapped his pen on the desktop for a moment. “What do you brethren think about Sister Wilson as the Young Women president?”

I nodded and tried to say, “I was just going to propose her name,” but the Spirit put on my lips, “I agree. I think she would be wonderful.”

This process went on in our meetings for about a month, until the ward was fully functioning. It really didn’t seem to matter how big or small the calling was or what the challenge was; I almost always heard the same prompting the bishop heard. Maybe the angels were just talking loudly in the room and I was allowed to eavesdrop.

Not long after the initial organization of the ward, we were talking about a potential calling for a ward member. I had not felt a prompting as before and for that reason doubted it was the right thing to do. My mind suddenly went back to a dozen years prior, when I had sat on a disciplinary council as a high councilor. I said, “I don’t think Brother Black is ready for this calling. A dozen years ago I sat on a disciplinary council for him . . .” and the Spirit told me to shut up. It was an interesting prompting. “Stop! Be quiet!”

I closed my mouth mid-sentence. The bishop looked at me funny. I said, “I shouldn’t have said that. It has no bearing on the present.”

The Bishop frowned. “You know, as you said the word ‘disciplinary council’ I had the thought, ‘He shouldn’t have said that. It has no bearing on the present.’ They were the same words you just used. I think the Holy Ghost just talked to me!” He seemed amazed.

I looked at him with different eyes. I realized that recognizing promptings was not what this brand new bishop had been doing these last few weeks. He had been receiving promptings and attributing them to his own intellect. He thought he was just a good organizer. The whole idea that the Holy Ghost would talk directly to him was astounding to him.

A new, fully developed thought came into my mind. I suddenly knew that teaching our humble new bishop to identify the revelation he already had was one of the reasons I was called to this bishopric. I waited a moment while the Holy Spirit warmed my soul. I said, “These last few weeks, as we organized the ward, just a few seconds before you would propose each new name, I would have the same name pop into my head. I knew it was from the Holy Spirit, and when you came up with the same name, it just confirmed that I had heard it correctly. This has happened consistently.”

The Bishop laid down his pen. “Why didn’t you say something? It would have helped me feel more certain about the callings to have known that.”

I replied, “It wasn’t necessary. The Spirit told me in each case to just concur with my bishop. I was never told to say why.”

The bishop let his chair lean back as he considered this. “I think Heavenly Father has been trying to teach me how to hear the Holy Ghost. I have been having these names come into my head. Is this what the Holy Ghost sounds like, just a thought? I mean, can you trust these ideas that just pop into your head to be from the Holy Ghost?”

Our other counselor said at that moment, “I’ve been having some of the names come into my mind, too, but not all of them. I was wondering what was going on. I thought we were just brainstorming or something. Is that really what revelation feels like?”

They were both looking at me, and I was waiting for the Holy Spirit to put words into my mouth. After a long moment I said, “Revelation almost always feels like our own ideas. The difference is that the ideas are usually sudden, probably something or someone you wouldn’t have thought of yourself, and they are accompanied by a feeling of rightness, or truth. Once you learn to recognize this revelatory process, you can identify it every time—and you can trust it every time. It is never wrong.”

Our newly minted bishop wiped tears from his eyes. “I have been praying all my life to receive revelation and never felt that I could, even though I have had sudden ideas like this my whole life. Ever since I was called as the bishop I have been praying with all my heart, with great urgency, that the Lord would teach me how to receive revelation so I could truly be a good bishop and not just someone sitting in this chair.”

I felt a surge of joy. I wiped tears from my eyes, too. “We have had constant revelation in this bishopric ever since the first meeting we held almost a month ago. Almost every decision we have made, I felt the approval of Heavenly Father.” I looked at the bishop intently. “Whether you knew it or not, you are one of the most inspired bishops I have ever known.”

I continued to receive confirmations as the bishop administered to his ward, but he didn’t need me anymore. I would often just nod, and he would smile because he valued my accord, but he didn’t need it. The Lord’s priesthood mantle had settled upon him, and he was “the bishop.” And in a humble, yet powerful way, he knew it.

Pontius, John; Pontius, Terri. Journey to the Veil II (pp. 170-173). Cedar Fort, Inc.. Kindle Edition. (emphasis mine)

Eternal Life, Eternal Punishment, D&C 19 is not an “oops”

D&C 19 clarifies the term “eternal” as the word has been translated in the scriptures. In English “eternal” means “without ending or beginning”, but in Hebrew, the word is “olam”, and in Greek, the word is “eonian”. Those words mean an age, a period of time, a world, a condition of existence, an estate. And in all these cases, there is definitely a beginning and an end.

Alma was “racked with eternal torment”, but after he repented, he “could remember [his] sins no more. So, “eternal” doesn’t mean what we commonly think it means.

Alma 36:12 But I was racked with eternal torment, for my soul was harrowed up to the greatest degree and racked with all my sins.

Alma 36:13 Yea, I did remember all my sins and iniquities, for which I was tormented with the pains of hell; yea, I saw that I had rebelled against my God, and that I had not kept his holy commandments.

Alma 36:14 Yea, and I had murdered many of his children, or rather led them away unto destruction; yea, and in fine so great had been my iniquities, that the very thought of coming into the presence of my God did rack my soul with inexpressible horror.

Alma 36:15 Oh, thought I, that I could be banished and become extinct both soul and body, that I might not be brought to stand in the presence of my God, to be judged of my deeds.

Alma 36:16 And now, for three days and for three nights was I racked, even with the pains of a damned soul.

Alma 36:17 And it came to pass that as I was thus racked with torment, while I was harrowed up by the memory of my many sins, behold, I remembered also to have heard my father prophesy unto the people concerning the coming of one Jesus Christ, a Son of God, to atone for the sins of the world.

Alma 36:18 Now, as my mind caught hold upon this thought, I cried within my heart: O Jesus, thou Son of God, have mercy on me, who am in the gall of bitterness, and am encircled about by the everlasting chains of death.

Alma 36:19 And now, behold, when I thought this, I could remember my pains no more; yea, I was harrowed up by the memory of my sins no more.

I don’t know what Joseph Smith was thinking. He probably had trouble comprehending what the Lord was trying to reveal, but he was really trying to undo centuries of false traditions due to mistranslations of the Bible. Just because you receive revelation doesn’t necessarily you understand what you receive or can easily put it in words. This was probably new to him also.

“Eternal punishment is God’s punishment”, means it’s the kind of punishment ordained by God. And, by the same token “Eternal life is God’s life”, or the kind of life that God lives. We say “eternal life is to know God”, but nobody can truly know God unless he IS God. Then, and only then can you live as God lives.

This is Bruce R. McConkie from A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, page 492:

There is a true doctrine on these points, a doctrine unknown by many and unbelieved by more, a doctrine that is spelled out as specifically and extensively in the revealed word as are any of the other revealed truths. There is no need for uncertainty or misunderstanding. And surely if the Lord reveals a doctrine, we should seek to learn its principles and strive to apply them in our lives. This doctrine is that mortal man, while in the flesh, has it in his power to see the Lord, to stand in His presence, to feel the nail marks in His hands and feet, and to receive from Him such blessings as are reserved for only those who keep all His commandments and who are qualified for that eternal life, which includes being in His presence forever. [Forever means now and always.]

Calling and Election

Brigham Young actually explained the difference between the Second Anointing and the Second Comforter. They are two different things. I have never seen this quote before, but wanted to share it. There are several significant points made here, and I know independently that he is telling the truth.

  • Priesthood is separate from and independent of the church
  • The fullness of the Melchizedek Priesthood comes directly from the Lord
  • The second anointing in the public promise. The second comforter is the private fulfilment of that promise. The first is not complete without the other.
  • People who come on “Mormon Stories” and complain that they haven’t seen the Savior in the temple, were not taught this doctrine properly. The second anointing comes about as a “reward”, given by man for faithful service in the church, and/or being connected to the “right” families. The second comforter is given by the Lord himself. If we take the Holy Spirit for our guide, seek and receive personal revelation, and act on it, the second comforter is the destination that this path leads to.
  • Contrary to what Brigham Young says, the second anointing is not a prerequisite for receiving the second comforter.

There are in the Church two Priesthoods, namely, the Melchizedek and the Aaronic, including the Levitical Priesthood (1) & C 107: 1). But there is additonal Priesthood that has never been delegated to the Church. The Lord Himself handles this Priesthood and gives it to whom and when He pleases. Man does not call another man to this order, neither does man secure it by the request or selection of any man on earth. The call comes by messenger from heaven requesting designated individuals into the House of God (and it is known to Latter-day Saints as the second anointing), preparatory to receiving the Second Comforter, which completes their ordination. Sometimes this second Comforter is given while in the Temple. Often it does not come until years after, even just at death. But they who have had their second anointings can see the face of the Lord and live, even though being in the flesh, as one sees and talks to another. A Priesthood Issue, p. 8 (See also: J.D., 9:87)

From the Pamphlet “Son thou Shalt Be Exalted” by Dennis Short https://content.byui.edu/file/76183b70-4348-4e74-bd7d-5b823a415513/1/FileMS166_SonThouShaltBeExalted.pdf

In the early history of the Church it was sometimes possible to tell which of the Apostles had made their ordination complete by a careful observance of the way in which they performed certain ordinances. If an Apostle had enjoyed the ministering of the Savior to him personally, and had the Lord lay His hands upon his head, then this Apostle would say, “Having authority given me of Jesus Christ….” If an Apostle had not made his ordination complete he would perform the ordinance in the conventional manner, i.e.: “Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I….”

There are other ways to tell whether a man has the Sealing Power or not, by the way in which he prays. Since this is easily imitated, I would reveal those ways, but if you are attentive, the Lord will reveal them to you.

Here is a really old quote from Bruce R. McConkie. He didn’t talk like this in his later years:

Revelations are not reserved for a limited few or for those called to positions of importance in the Church. It is not position in the Church that confers spiritual gifts. It is not being a bishop, a stake president, or an apostle that makes revelation and salvation available. These are high and holy callings which open the door to the privilege of great service among men. But it is not a call to a special office that opens the windows of revelation to a truth seeker. Rather it is personal righteousness; it is keeping the commandments; it is seeking the Lord while He may be found.

God is no respecter of persons. He will give revelation to me and to you on the same terms and conditions. I can see what Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon saw in the vision of the degrees of glory–and so can you. I can entertain angels and see God, I can receive an out pouring of the gifts of the Spirit–and so can you.

There are goals to gain, summits to climb, revelations to receive. In the eternal scope of things we have scarcely started out on the course to glory and exaltation. The Lord wants His Saints to receive line upon line, precept upon precept, truth upon truth, revelation upon revelation, until we know all things and have become like Him.

Let us press forward in making our callings and elections sure, until, as Joseph Smith said, we shall have the personage of Jesus Christ to attend us, or to appear to us from time to time, and until even He will manifest the Father unto use (See TPJS., p. 151). Improvement Era, December 1969, p. 85

Visualizing Adam-ondi-Ahman

Sit back, relax, and visualize what might happen, should you be invited to attend Adam-ondi-Adman, an event held in heaven, possibly already held in connection with a major event in the heavens, and you are invited to ascend and attend this event, out of space and time. I’m not saying whether or not it happened this way, but there is a scriptural basis for what you will read.

Why I am opposed to organized Religion

I mentioned in a previous post that I have problems with organized religion.

Some people may know this, but not others. I was actually involved in the organization of a Restoration church. It began as a group of in-home fellowships, but we received commandments and authority from the Lord to organize the Priesthood. We had apostles, prophets, patriarchs, evangelists, bishops, and all the offices of the Priesthood. We dedicated a small structure like unto Moses’ tabernacle, dedicated it, and administered temple ordinances. We were doing things and having spiritual experiences, and gifts of the Spirit like the early church under Joseph Smith.

There were two things that soured me on the idea of ANY institutional church.

(1) As Priesthood holders, we had visions, revelations, and other gifts of the Spirit that the LDS church could only talk about. Our apostles had true power and authority from Christ.

(2) Some of the members sought after positions of authority, and as soon as they got it, they wanted to organize an institutional church patterned after the LDS church. We slipped into apostasy, almost immediately. They drove the true servants of God out of the church.

I pondered for years what we did wrong. What was the exact moment when we went astray? I finally identified it as the time we officially organized and incorporated under the State of California. We even received a revelation the warned us that we were “following the arm of flesh”, but we ignored it.

But, through it all, I learned to depend on personal revelation. My journals are full of it.

I support the Lord’s definition of His church.

“Those who repent and come to me.” D&C 10:67

This could be an individual, a family, a small group of people holding regular cottage meetings.

This is such an accurate description of the history of our little group, the Lord could have said this of us, not the Nephites.

3 Nephi 27:3 And they said unto him: Lord, we will that thou wouldst tell us the name whereby we shall call this church; for there are disputations among the people concerning this matter.

3 Nephi 27:4 And the Lord said unto them: Verily, verily, I say unto you, why is it that the people should murmur and dispute because of this thing?

3 Nephi 27:5 Have they not read the scriptures, which say ye must take upon you the name of Christ, which is my name? For by this name shall ye be called at the last day;

3 Nephi 27:6 And whoso taketh upon him my name, and endureth to the end, the same shall be saved at the last day.

3 Nephi 27:7 Therefore, whatsoever ye shall do, ye shall do it in my name; therefore ye shall call the church in my name; and ye shall call upon the Father in my name that he will bless the church for my sake.

3 Nephi 27:8 And how be it my church save it be called in my name? For if a church be called in Moses’ name then it be Moses’ church; or if it be called in the name of a man then it be the church of a man; but if it be called in my name then it is my church, if it so be that they are built upon my gospel.

3 Nephi 27:9 Verily I say unto you, that ye are built upon my gospel; therefore ye shall call whatsoever things ye do call, in my name; therefore if ye call upon the Father, for the church, if it be in my name the Father will hear you;

3 Nephi 27:10 And if it so be that the church is built upon my gospel then will the Father show forth his own works in it.

3 Nephi 27:11 But if it be not built upon my gospel, and is built upon the works of men, or upon the works of the devil, verily I say unto you they have joy in their works for a season, and by and by the end cometh, and they are hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence there is no return.

Are Mormons Christians?

Many Mormons have put their church and its leaders ahead of Christ, and as such are idolators. But, as a commentator pointed out, to say that all Mormons put the church ahead of Christ is taking a generalization too far. Many LDS people are today waking up to the fact that, as a group, we have had a tendency to do worship the church and not Christ, and to trust the church not the Lord to save us, and I will stand by my position that many top church leaders put the organization ahead of Christ. But many ordinary members are grateful for other members who showed us that we were doing this, and we realized our mistake. I think some of the best teachers in the church, are not the leaders, or the official teachers, but fellow members, who by their example, and a word or two, get us thinking.

I am grateful for the church for bringing us together under a common umbrella and for preserving the scriptures so that we can study they for ourselves. I hope, in this blog, I can attract and retain people who want to put the Lord first in their lives, and I promise that I will try harder not to overly generalize. This is a tendency we get into online. This trend actually started when all people had was email, when we lost that personal connection and could hide behind words. And now it’s carried over into blogs and Facebook. We all really need to watch ourselves in this.

“Christianity”, as a belief system, is nothing to be admired as its adherents place their creeds ahead of Christ, and are just as much idolators. Their idea of “faith”, for example, is not seeking revelation and acting it, but instead, their idea of faith is a set of beliefs that you must follow.

I will admit to one of my pet peeves. I really, really, really don’t like organized religion, and I tend to go overboard in condemning it. It’s just because I have seen what it can do to people who would otherwise be great friends. However, many people see great value in large organizations, and I will try to be more tolerant. To me, the most spiritual times I ever had with people was in private discussions, or in small meetings held in peoples’ homes. I grew up in small branches of the church all my life, and on my mission, and that was all I knew until I attended college in Utah.

The definition of the church of Christ and a true disciple of Christ is very simple. It’s in the D&C.

10:67. Behold, this is my doctrine–whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.
10:68. Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.
10:69. And now, behold, whosoever is of my church, and endureth of my church to the end, him will I establish upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.
10:70. And now, remember the words of him who is the life and light of the world, your Redeemer, your Lord and your God. Amen.

Imitating Christ

Somebody posted to Facebook the other day about a talk given last conference. The speaker said that in order to follow Jesus, we had to “imitate Jesus”. The poster did a great job of debunking this notion, and the entire “gospel of works” by actually teaching the correct doctrine of Christ from the Scriptures.

I just wanted to a brief comment.

Eternal life is not to imitate God, but to know God. Satan imitates God. That’s why he’s able to deceive.